Author Topic: Explicit Motorsports/Tank Tuning  (Read 7503 times)

Offline kevinmfb

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Explicit Motorsports/Tank Tuning
« on: May 15, 2012, 12:55:07 PM »
The topic of Tank and Explicit Motorsports has been a hot one the last couple days. There seems to be some disagreement on the quality of Tank's tuning abilities and question the reliability of the cars he has tuned. Well, I say we settle it here and preferably without anybody's feelings getting hurt or threats made against each other. Car talk. Car debates...it's been going on for years.


And since my car has been Tuned by Tank I figured I have some words of thought to throw in the mix.


First off I will say I have had my car tuned twice by Tank.  Stage 1 and Stage 2.  The difference between stock and stage 1 was pretty freakin' great. There was that extra oomph the car was missing from the factory. That little bit that your butt dyno loved to feel and put that grin on your face. I'm sure those that have experienced this can vouch for me here.


Stage 2 comes along one day and Tank tunes my car again. Um, yeah...stage 1 what? The car pulled even harder and the ole butt dyno was even happier as well as the bigger grin. I'm feeling like I'm driving a whole new vehicle.


So stage 1 is good and stage 2 is awesome. Then I overboost in 5th gear on the freeway. Dang!!  The car does it's dancing lights on the dash and the car is in limp mode. It's a concern but am able to clear the code by disconnecting the negative cable. I should have downshifted into 4th to pass, this I know. 


Some more time goes by and another overboost. GRRRR!!! Downshift dumby, but I was doing 70mph...didn't think downshifting was needed. But once again my lesson was learned.  You can't just mash the throttle in 5th gear to pass. Either downshift or roll on smooth.


On the cruise last fall, when coming back on Old Lincoln Highway southbound just past Pink Poodle where the road curves and has a slight incline I was doing 45mph in 4th gear (10mph over the posted speed limit) and rolled on the throttle to get some speed going up the hill I overboosted again. I called Tank, who was on the cruise, to take a peek at my car when we got back and see if the problem could be fixed.  He gets in my car with his laptop connected to the ECU and drives away. He assured me everything should be fine now. Whew! I was getting concerned after a few overboost issues.


October 4th, 2011, while on my way to Ainsworth, NE I was cruising at 75mph on the 2-lane section of Hwy 20 between Atkinson and Bassett. I went to pass an 18-wheeler and overboosted again. I was already doing 75mph which is around 3000rpm in my car and I only gave half throttle at the most. WTF!?!?! I get to my friend's house and disconnect the negative cable again. :( I'm not very happy at this point and overboosting is absolutely terrible for your car. It's literally a kiss of death which I had survived multiple times. Thank you Subaru ECU!! Plus I was assured that I would not experience this again. From this point on I drive my car normal with very little open highway driving with no incidents.


Around the first of the year a friend gets in touch with me and had some questions for me. Questions along the lines of if I was happy with my car's performance and overall driveablility. I thought to myself for a bit and I recalled the overboost issues and how my car didn't feel the same after the "fix" was done at the Fall Fling. So I guess, no, I wasn't happy with performance and overall driveablity. He then asks me if it was alright if he and a friend could drive my car and possibly tune my car for me. I was cool with them driving it but wasn't sure I wanted to have my car tuned again. Trusting people with my car is not a strong part of me and to have Tom do so was a big step.

Close to a month goes by and I decide to say screw it. I'll hand the keys over and see what happens. This was a decision based on lots of very detailed and technical discussion that was mostly over my head. For the most part it's been cleared up and I'm still learning things but yeah, I decided to have my car tuned again. This time I was behind the wheel and the tuner was sitting in the passenger seat keeping close tabs on what was going on with my car. Something Tank didn't do. He was the person behind the wheel while I held that laptop. Since I was so inexperienced at the time I thought this was normal.

We take my car out which has the most basic of stage 2 maps anybody can get on the internet since the map that was on my car was not the best. The person tuning my car wanted a clean slate. The map was loaded just to get my car driving so we could get down to business. After about 4 hours of tweaking it was time for me to get home. The wife was calling ;) Plus it was a bad day on the roads. We made some progress but it wasn't done yet. The next day my car gets picked up for some more road tuning and logging while I'm at work.

When they get back with my car they were all smiles. Was told to get in my car and take it for a spin to see what I thought. Well, my quote from me when I did a 2nd - 3rd gear pull was, "Holy F**K MY BALLS!!!" 

My car felt even more alive than it every had. Even from idle it felt smoother but I won't ramble on about the new tune.

The point behind this huge post is, NO, I wouldn't have Tank tune my car again. It ran super rich, it idled at almost 1000rpm and well, his tune compared to what I have now doesn't compare.

As far as Explicit Motorsports goes for a parts company. Shop online...the prices are almost the same.  When I ordered a part from Tank it came in an Import Image Racing box that wasn't even opened yet and was addressed to his house. If that's the way it's going to be I'll just shop for myself.






Offline C.J.

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Re: Explicit Motorsports/Tank Tuning
« Reply #1 on: May 15, 2012, 01:12:19 PM »
Good read.  Nothing like insider information from a previous customer subjected to sub par tuning.  After seeing the ROM on your car I'm just glad it got fixed in time before you ended up on an ever growing list of major mechanical failures due to faulty tuning.

Offline LBP WRX

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Re: Explicit Motorsports/Tank Tuning
« Reply #2 on: May 15, 2012, 01:21:02 PM »
Nice post very informative.
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Offline jton

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Re: Explicit Motorsports/Tank Tuning
« Reply #3 on: May 15, 2012, 02:42:42 PM »
Thanks for sharing your experiences Kevin.
-Jimmy
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Offline omahasubaru

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Re: Explicit Motorsports/Tank Tuning
« Reply #4 on: May 15, 2012, 10:20:05 PM »
I have never used Explicit Motorsports (tank) for tuning. Mainly because I don't have any tuning options on any of my cars at this time.

I have, however used him for ordering some upgrades. His prices have always been fair and competitive. I like the idea of buying the parts from someone I know, even if he is just a re-seller.

It says a lot when you have someone to go through who would to bat for you if there are any issues with what you receive. Rather than you -vs- the distributor. Distributors listen to their re-sellers way better than joe schmo off the street who they don't know for jack handy that just placed an order online.

I also prefer to spend my money close to home if I have an option, regardless of where the parts come from. It's way easier to send out an email to Explicit with a list of parts I need and let him track them down and get me pricing than scour the net on my own. If it even costs me a few dollars more, it's worth it to me to know who is getting my money personally.

Thanks - Jon
« Last Edit: May 15, 2012, 10:21:55 PM by omahasubaru »

Offline TeknoCop

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Re: Explicit Motorsports/Tank Tuning
« Reply #5 on: May 15, 2012, 10:48:56 PM »
A tuner review section is definately needed.   

Im glad your issues got fixed Kevin.  After seeing that log, I about pooped myself. 

Im also glad I made the trip to Jorge. ;D

Offline bheinz57

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Re: Explicit Motorsports/Tank Tuning
« Reply #6 on: May 16, 2012, 08:37:10 AM »
Good reading here.

Please (Asks the turbo noob) regarding the first post by Kevin, why would there be overboost issues in 5th gear like he was explaining?  Is this due to the tune?  I am assuming so, due to the fact that just mashing on the throttle in 5th at low rpm's should not give you boost issues, correct?

Thanks.

Brian

Offline julozas

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Re: Explicit Motorsports/Tank Tuning
« Reply #7 on: May 16, 2012, 11:09:43 AM »
My car was "tank" tuned to stage 2 and it ran great for the first few months, then my car started leaking oil, turned out it was coming from the turbo :(. Don't think that's the tune's fault tho the car has 110,000 miles on it. Other than that the only other issue I had was a cylinder 1 misfire which was the result of a coil pack gone bad. I had a great experience with tank, he is a smart guy and answered Any questions I had and even offered to teach me a little about what he does to the map.

Overall I would say tank does a great job tuning subarus, he's tuned hundreds and obviously he is doing something right if people keep coming back

Also this is a great thread :)
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Offline kevinmfb

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Re: Explicit Motorsports/Tank Tuning
« Reply #8 on: May 16, 2012, 11:42:59 AM »
My car was "tank" tuned to stage 2 and it ran great for the first few months, then my car started leaking oil, turned out it was coming from the turbo :( . Don't think that's the tune's fault tho the car has 110,000 miles on it. Other than that the only other issue I had was a cylinder 1 misfire which was the result of a coil pack gone bad. I had a great experience with tank, he is a smart guy and answered Any questions I had and even offered to teach me a little about what he does to the map.

Overall I would say tank does a great job tuning subarus, he's tuned hundreds and obviously he is doing something right if people keep coming back

Also this is a great thread :)
Those issues don't sound tune related at all and considering the mileage I would say the parts were toast.
I'm glad you have a good running car, Josh!
We all love our expensive purchases to work proper, you know?  8)

Offline kevinmfb

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Re: Explicit Motorsports/Tank Tuning
« Reply #9 on: May 16, 2012, 12:46:11 PM »
Here's an idea.
Don't respond to him.
Some times trying to police everything everybody says starts a battle that will never end.

« Last Edit: May 16, 2012, 03:59:33 PM by kevinmfb »

Offline TeknoCop

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Re: Explicit Motorsports/Tank Tuning
« Reply #10 on: May 16, 2012, 12:52:38 PM »
Here's an idea.
Don't respond to him.
Some times trying to police everything everybody says starts a battle that will never end.


The 100's comment was actually fairly accurate.

+1

Offline watercrawl

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Re: Explicit Motorsports/Tank Tuning
« Reply #11 on: May 16, 2012, 12:53:51 PM »
Fair enough...post deleted!

Here's an idea.
Don't respond to him.
Some times trying to police everything everybody says starts a battle that will never end.


The 100's comment was actually fairly accurate.

Offline kevinmfb

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Re: Explicit Motorsports/Tank Tuning
« Reply #12 on: May 16, 2012, 01:22:39 PM »
You didn't have to delete nor did I want to come off as a richard head.

Offline omahasubaru

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Re: Explicit Motorsports/Tank Tuning
« Reply #13 on: May 16, 2012, 02:21:29 PM »
Does this thread have to work it's way into the toilet?

Can't anyone be civil and mature about this?

Come on guys.

Offline watercrawl

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Re: Explicit Motorsports/Tank Tuning
« Reply #14 on: May 16, 2012, 02:45:07 PM »
I know, and you didn't.  :)  Just, you were right...that is all.  :) 

You didn't have to delete nor did I want to come off as a richard head.

Offline julozas

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Re: Explicit Motorsports/Tank Tuning
« Reply #15 on: May 16, 2012, 03:50:57 PM »
Ok since this is a thread about tuning, can anyone provide feedback on the other tuners that are out there(jazz, etc...?)
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Offline kevinmfb

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Re: Explicit Motorsports/Tank Tuning
« Reply #16 on: May 16, 2012, 04:00:45 PM »
Ok since this is a thread about tuning, can anyone provide feedback on the other tuners that are out there(jazz, etc...?)
I can do that too but it will have to be in a different thread.
Don't want to mix up two subjects in one thread too much.

Offline scby_snk

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Re: Explicit Motorsports/Tank Tuning
« Reply #17 on: May 16, 2012, 06:07:47 PM »
Ok since this is a thread about tuning, can anyone provide feedback on the other tuners that are out there(jazz, etc...?)

*jaz Tuning...only one z mang  :subaru:
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jaz Tuning

Offline bspec

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Re: Explicit Motorsports/Tank Tuning
« Reply #18 on: May 17, 2012, 08:19:30 AM »
For the other local tuning options, does one have to be in a special club to get a tune? One great thing about Explicit was that when they came around, they were the only publicly available option locally. I had a much better experience being able to work with a local tuner than I did wasting an entire summer trying to get a stage 2 e-tune dialed in, and it still knocked after those 3 months.

I have only had 3 tuning experiences, the e-tune from a highly recommended vendor on legacygt.com (Horrible!), myself customizing an OTS stage 2 tune from romraider.com (worked and was safe but not ideal), and Explicit (much better). tank took the time to work with me, answer all my questions, and re-do things when I ran into multiple mechanical issues (IC couplings, loose wbo2, multiple exhausts, etc.) It did help that I had some experience with my car as tank wasn't the most familiar with the Legacy platform at the time. Still, with the Explicit tune on my car, everyone that rides in and drives it wants a Legacy. That's gotta say something, right?

I would be very interested at getting the password to the club of the other local tuners for comparison purposes.
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Offline scby_snk

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Re: Explicit Motorsports/Tank Tuning
« Reply #19 on: May 17, 2012, 09:01:57 AM »
As far as a special club if you're referring to jaz Tuning. No.
We just do not confront people per say about tuning their car.
We don't strive to do a mass quantity of cars; we put a lot of work in our tunes.
And working and having familys shortens time. We Havnt been able to work on our own cars either as we have been busy getting others squared away first. We are definitely not in it for the money.
Honestly. Every car we have tuned has came to us. It's all word of mouth and what they may have seen and heard about.

We can't make every meet but we would like to, I can promise you that. :)

But short and simple, no club, all it takes is a PM, or and email that we set up recently.

Feel free to get in touch. We are quiet yes.


And in no means am I trying to derail or go off topic with this post.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2012, 09:05:13 AM by SuaveCougarBait »
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jaz Tuning

Offline fishbone

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Re: Explicit Motorsports/Tank Tuning
« Reply #20 on: May 17, 2012, 12:52:34 PM »
Tuner X did this
Tuner Y was able to do that
What we all need to know is what has changed between tuner X and Y, mechanically speaking mostly.
Many people forget that tuner X is working with what he has
I have not been able to iron out some strange knock issues via 4 different tuners.
If I change my knock sensor tomorrow and all is well once I get a tune through XYZ, I am not going to slam the previous 4 for not getting it done.
I'm not saying that's Kevin's case, I am simply saying there are many factors to be taken into consideration

Additionally, if my engine blows with Tom sitting in the passenger seat tuning while I drive, I will chalk that up to the risks of tuning and bad luck, which we ALL need to accept, unless of course said tuner, whoever they are, happened to input a critical value wrong.

Offline kevinmfb

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Re: Explicit Motorsports/Tank Tuning
« Reply #21 on: May 17, 2012, 01:05:51 PM »
And a critical over rich map was a big error.

If we are gonna turn this into a battle thread I'm game because that seems to be the direction it's going.

My car was running like ****. Plain and simple. Jaz fixed it. Plain and simple.

Offline fishbone

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Re: Explicit Motorsports/Tank Tuning
« Reply #22 on: May 17, 2012, 01:12:19 PM »
I'm not going to name names but the tuners I have worked with are all big national names doing both etunes and protunes.
I'm not looking to turn this into a battle thread and if you were not happy and can't recommend Tom I can absolutely understand that.
But at the same time I personally need a bit more information before I can say yep, this guy doesn't know what he is doing.

Kevin, was your car mechanically speaking the same or did the tuner have to fix anything?
I had me running a pig rich map too in order to try and troubleshoot dropping IAM. When I posted the learning views I was essentially told to not drive the car more than I was willing to walk until I had the tune fixed.

Offline kevinmfb

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Re: Explicit Motorsports/Tank Tuning
« Reply #23 on: May 17, 2012, 01:24:40 PM »
My car was overboosting...it had happened many times.
The final map that was put on my car as the "fix" was "stupid rich".


There was no intention of ever trying to get the problem truely solved in my eyes.


With a better tune and the aid of a MBC all is well now.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2012, 01:31:21 PM by kevinmfb »

Offline fishbone

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Re: Explicit Motorsports/Tank Tuning
« Reply #24 on: May 17, 2012, 02:14:03 PM »
Gotcha. In other words I jumped into the middle of the discussion which I shouldn't have especially since I have no dog in this fight.
I'll just sit back and watch now :)

A boost control of any kind will help a lot with getting boost under control.
I have one waiting to go in, my boost looked like a lolercoaster when working with previous tuners. Overshooting target, bleeding it to get under control, then build up and overshoot again.
It finally got under control by Mark, who is awesome by the way.
He was the first and only one that said "look, your car loves boost, loves to build it quick and she seems to like it right around 17.4 so let's stop fighting it and start with that in mind".
« Last Edit: May 17, 2012, 02:16:41 PM by fishbone »