Author Topic: why equal length headers suck  (Read 8713 times)


Offline jaz

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Re: why equal length headers suck
« Reply #1 on: March 13, 2013, 02:51:51 PM »
Does not compute...  Equal Length Headers sound great to me.  In fact, I can't stand the rumble anymore as I know it's choking the engine and causing two cylinders to run hotter than the opposing two.  ELH cars tend to run smoother as well.  :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ug-NIy9Ri2w

Offline rossco

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Re: why equal length headers suck
« Reply #2 on: March 13, 2013, 03:11:03 PM »
I like the sound of equal length header more.
2006 WRX Wagon Aspen White

Offline C.J.

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Re: why equal length headers suck
« Reply #3 on: March 13, 2013, 04:12:39 PM »
I'm not here to say this is a stupid thread...but...

Offline RedOxRu

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Re: why equal length headers suck
« Reply #4 on: March 13, 2013, 07:05:22 PM »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ug-NIy9Ri2w

My favorite part of this video is "it be call External Wastegate yo."

Offline jton

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Re: why equal length headers suck
« Reply #5 on: March 13, 2013, 08:23:07 PM »
I care about the sound more than the safety and efficiency of the motor.

Subaru Rumble!!!
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Offline TeknoCop

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Re: why equal length headers suck
« Reply #6 on: March 13, 2013, 10:54:47 PM »
LOL^   

I love the subaru rumble, but the EL headers dont sound too bad.  My gruppe-s UEL took a lot of the rumble out of my STi.  Its much more raspy then before.  I may go EL eventually if I end up keeping the STi in the long run.  Gonna be paid off here soon, so I think a monster engine build is on the way.

Offline jaz

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Re: why equal length headers suck
« Reply #7 on: March 13, 2013, 10:59:06 PM »
Another nice thing about a good ELH is that it takes away all the drone and vibration in the car. 

Offline commbubba19

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Re: why equal length headers suck
« Reply #8 on: March 14, 2013, 06:52:17 AM »
I'm talking just about sound.

That sound is the only reason i considered owning a subaru.  Without that, it sounds just like any other 4 cyl, just because it is oriented horizontally vs. vertically has nothing to do with sound.  Exactly why the new 2.0 sounds like any other 4cyl.

Keep in mind, I've owned v8's pretty much since i was 17, so that is the sound I grew up with and associate with power and speed.  Alot of you guys grew up with I4's and that's the sound you know. 

If the new 2.0 in the 2014/15 wrx is EL headererd, I will not be a customer.   ^_^

Offline jaz

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Re: why equal length headers suck
« Reply #9 on: March 14, 2013, 10:55:26 AM »
I'm talking just about sound.

That sound is the only reason i considered owning a subaru.  Without that, it sounds just like any other 4 cyl, just because it is oriented horizontally vs. vertically has nothing to do with sound.  Exactly why the new 2.0 sounds like any other 4cyl.

Keep in mind, I've owned v8's pretty much since i was 17, so that is the sound I grew up with and associate with power and speed.  Alot of you guys grew up with I4's and that's the sound you know. 

If the new 2.0 in the 2014/15 wrx is EL headererd, I will not be a customer.   ^_^

Sound is your ONLY reason for owning a Subaru???  V8's don't necessarily associate with power and speed.  In my family, the V8's have always been slower than my V6's or 4-cylinders, an my dad's V8 puts out over 500whp/500wtq.

I'm just going to leave this here as it was recently posted on my friend's FB:
"ooh, hang on, that is the throb of a turbocharged flat-4 engine, a sound which all over the world heralds the imminent arrival of a ##### ." - Clarkson.

Offline copenhagen6123

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Re: why equal length headers suck
« Reply #10 on: March 14, 2013, 11:22:09 AM »
I'm talking just about sound.


Keep in mind, I've owned v8's pretty much since i was 17, so that is the sound I grew up with and associate with power and speed.  Alot of you guys grew up with I4's and that's the sound you know. 

If the new 2.0 in the 2014/15 wrx is EL headererd, I will not be a customer.   ^_^

Wow this just opened up Pandora's box. I would have been more frustrated about the half a liter displacement loss not that they improved the exhaust...... If I made my decisions based on sound, my garage door would be silent, my girlfriend would sound like a porn star, and I would hire Morgan Freeman to tell you that "You sir, are an idiot."

Offline kevinmfb

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Re: why equal length headers suck
« Reply #11 on: March 14, 2013, 01:03:34 PM »
LOL

Offline Arani Rey

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Re: why equal length headers suck
« Reply #12 on: March 14, 2013, 01:33:00 PM »
When it comes down to choosing a performance AWD compact, sound is a factor. I'll give up my boxer UELH sound when I give up all my interior and back seat.  That's probably never with this car.

Offline jaz

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Re: why equal length headers suck
« Reply #13 on: March 14, 2013, 01:39:02 PM »
When it comes down to choosing a performance AWD compact, sound is a factor. I'll give up my boxer UELH sound when I give up all my interior and back seat.  That's probably never with this car.

I just do not see how these correlate.  When you're talking performance, I was looking at the strong transmission, beefy brakes, aluminum control arms, parts potential, etc...
« Last Edit: March 14, 2013, 02:06:14 PM by jaz »

Offline C.J.

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Re: why equal length headers suck
« Reply #14 on: March 14, 2013, 01:45:32 PM »
I'm talking just about sound.

That sound is the only reason i considered owning a subaru.  Without that, it sounds just like any other 4 cyl, just because it is oriented horizontally vs. vertically has nothing to do with sound.  Exactly why the new 2.0 sounds like any other 4cyl.

Keep in mind, I've owned v8's pretty much since i was 17, so that is the sound I grew up with and associate with power and speed.  Alot of you guys grew up with I4's and that's the sound you know. 

If the new 2.0 in the 2014/15 wrx is EL headererd, I will not be a customer.   ^_^

Sounds like you grew up slowly...

Offline Arani Rey

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Re: why equal length headers suck
« Reply #15 on: March 14, 2013, 01:51:07 PM »
When it comes down to choosing a performance AWD compact, sound is a factor. I'll give up my boxer UELH sound when I give up all my interior and back seat.  That's probably never with this car.

I just do not see how these correlate.

Observe, Performance & Sound Together.
Seriously though the catback for most newer WRXs doesn't add much performance if any so its all about sound and look. I fell in love with Subaru because of the noise first... back when I had a raspy 4cly

Offline jaz

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Re: why equal length headers suck
« Reply #16 on: March 14, 2013, 01:57:51 PM »
That magazine is geared towards audio when referencing "sound".

The cat-back was never a big power adder until you went a good bit beyond stage 2.  These motors don't flow a lot up top until you get into much larger turbos.

My car is nice and quiet until the EWG opens up.  I like it that way.  I'm geared towards a better, healthier running motor though.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2013, 02:00:31 PM by jaz »

Offline commbubba19

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Re: why equal length headers suck
« Reply #17 on: March 14, 2013, 02:32:14 PM »
gee, i was hoping subie owners weren't dicks too but you guys are changing my mind.

i didn't start the thread to have a pissing match between 4cyl and v8's and who makes more power.  that's a retarded argument.  i just wanted to post a thread how i'm disappointed subaru appears to be moving towards equal length headers on the new 2.0 and that they are removing a major reason why i bought my car in the first place.

and i bought my car because its awd, has 4 doors, hatch, 5spd, quick, and looks decent.  basically it can do anything i need or want (except burnouts haha)  but if there were two cars exactly the same, one with the boxer sound, one without and you told me i couldn't buy the better sounding of the two (traditional boxer sound), i'd walk away and look for another car, preferrably one with a v8.

the EL headers on a flat 4, or any other turbo'd inline 4 (ie: focus st) where you can actually hear the exhaust sound like butt.  my opinion.   ^_^

Offline TeknoCop

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Re: why equal length headers suck
« Reply #18 on: March 14, 2013, 02:51:24 PM »
EL headers are more efficient.  Probably why Subaru is going towards them with the new 2.0 engines.  Buying a vehicle simply because it sounds good is retarded.  A turbo'd car with an EL header doesn't sound that bad.  I own Subarus because they are safe, reliable, and fun to drive.  The sound of it was probably last on my list.  Nsoc is changing more and more theses days, and it's not a good change.  I miss all of the older members.

Offline jaz

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Re: why equal length headers suck
« Reply #19 on: March 14, 2013, 02:52:24 PM »
gee, i was hoping subie owners weren't dicks too but you guys are changing my mind.

You could try NASIOC...  I assure you that your responses would be a lot different.

Nobody is being a d!ck.  This IS discussion though.  Apparently, not everyone sees the ELH as something that sucks (which in itself is derogatory and will lead to swayed discussion).  To top it off, your post had NOTHING in it to explain your point.  You simply posted a link and left it with that.  That opens up the door to however someone interoperates it. 

i didn't start the thread to have a pissing match between 4cyl and v8's and who makes more power.  that's a retarded argument.  i just wanted to post a thread how i'm disappointed subaru appears to be moving towards equal length headers on the new 2.0 and that they are removing a major reason why i bought my car in the first place.

There is no pissing match going on.  We are discussing the benefits of ELH and why they are technically far better.  Some people like the sound, some don't care for it.  I know some that liked the sound until they researched the difference between the two styles of headers.  There's nothing stopping you from changing and ELH car into an UEL header car, but you would be hurting "performance". 

and i bought my car because its awd, has 4 doors, hatch, 5spd, quick, and looks decent.  basically it can do anything i need or want (except burnouts haha)  but if there were two cars exactly the same, one with the boxer sound, one without and you told me i couldn't buy the better sounding of the two (traditional boxer sound), i'd walk away and look for another car, preferrably one with a v8.

This is what I don't get.  You can modify a car to sound differently to suit your taste.  The sound you're infatuated with isn't the "boxer", it is the poorly designed exhaust focused on cost savings.  You can even make an NA Subaru sound like a turbo UEL Subaru with changing to an UEL header.

the EL headers on a flat 4, or any other turbo'd inline 4 (ie: focus st) where you can actually hear the exhaust sound like butt.  my opinion.   ^_^

The sound with an ELH on a flat motor (yes, the flat motor does have a different sound characteristic than an inline motor) isn't that much different, it's just not lumpy like a Harley.  What you're hearing is two exhaust pulses crashing into each other. 

Again, there is no pissing match going on, just a bit of discussion. 

Offline commbubba19

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Re: why equal length headers suck
« Reply #20 on: March 14, 2013, 03:14:36 PM »
ugh, this is getting out of hand.

i'm just saying that in MY opinon, i prefer UEL vs. EL headers.  I posted examples of the new 2.0 with an exhaust an a heavily modified BRZ and a 2.5 with UEL and EL that did a very good job of representing the differences between the two.

Whether you (not directed to anyone particular) think its dumb or not, knowing what the WRX sounds like was a factor in my purchase decision but not the only reason as I listed above.  Unfortunately it would seem subaru is moving to an EL header on the new 2.0 likely as you stated due to increased efficiency, flow, and power.  Which are completely reasonable and justified reasons.  For all we know it might just package better in the engine bay.  However, that is a reason enough that I think I would look elsewhere when it comes time that i want to replace my current WRX.

Maybe 10 years ago I would care that I got every last bit of power out of my car, but I hear my car every single day for hours.  That cannot be said for power nor does the old butt meter going to be able to feel it.

Offline jaz

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Re: why equal length headers suck
« Reply #21 on: March 14, 2013, 03:27:43 PM »
ugh, this is getting out of hand.

Is it because not everyone agrees with you?

i'm just saying that in MY opinon, i prefer UEL vs. EL headers.  I posted examples of the new 2.0 with an exhaust an a heavily modified BRZ and a 2.5 with UEL and EL that did a very good job of representing the differences between the two.
You never explained why they suck, period.  You posted links... For someone who doesn't think the ELH sounds bad, I would have to assume what your point is.  I suppose a proper response would have been, "why?".


Whether you (not directed to anyone particular) think its dumb or not, knowing what the WRX sounds like was a factor in my purchase decision but not the only reason as I listed above.  Unfortunately it would seem subaru is moving to an EL header on the new 2.0 likely as you stated due to increased efficiency, flow, and power.  Which are completely reasonable and justified reasons.  For all we know it might just package better in the engine bay.  However, that is a reason enough that I think I would look elsewhere when it comes time that i want to replace my current WRX.

Maybe 10 years ago I would care that I got every last bit of power out of my car, but I hear my car every single day for hours.  That cannot be said for power nor does the old butt meter going to be able to feel it.

That is understandable.  Maybe I'm aging as I desire less noise these days.  As for the "every day" part.  It's not completely about squeezing out all the power you can.  It is about having a smoother running motor that does not have two cylinders running a good bit hotter that opposing two in all conditions.  In addition, if you take advantage of the ELH, even the highly inaccurate butt-dyno will know the difference ;).

Offline StiCam

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Re: why equal length headers suck
« Reply #22 on: March 14, 2013, 04:21:13 PM »
I have to agree with Jaz.....the sound gets very drone like after awhile........I will be purchasing ELH for my STi! I like the way they sound. I also think if you have (not saying you do) an EWG on your vehicle and are arguing about how bad ELH's sound.....it doesn't matter cause you are not going to hear it anyways! I love the sound of a pissed off cat under a hood followed by the sound of POWA! :subaru:

Offline OBP WRX

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Re: why equal length headers suck
« Reply #23 on: March 14, 2013, 04:24:52 PM »
I must admit that sound had a lot to do with me liking subies...that rumble is distinct and always makes my head snap toward the sound. 

I was considering UELH to keep the sound but then I read that headers actually cause MORE lag and some are prone to cracking.  So now I am leaning toward ported manifold and a ceramic coated cross pipe from GrimmSpeed.

If ELH reduced lag, I would consider but mourn the loss of the rumble...but I am still new to Subies so maybe it wears off after a few years.
Jerome

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Offline kevinmfb

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Re: why equal length headers suck
« Reply #24 on: March 14, 2013, 04:51:42 PM »
It's getting out hand? This is not even bad.

You apparently came in here looking for a bunch of "heck yeahs" and "Subie rumble is AWESOME" but the thread turned into a two-sided discussion.

Discussion.

Weed out the inflammatory comments and a different perspective in this. Your taste is your taste; that's that. But info is priceless. Maybe someday you'll want something different sounding but not want a Civic. Well, you can have a Subie that sounds like an inline 4...

Everybody gets so butthurt these days.

If you wanna check out the black WRX's build look up Xluben on NASIOC. There may be some insight into his decision on header.