Author Topic: Pooh Performance Tuning - multiple reviews  (Read 10569 times)

Offline Badmeat

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Pooh Performance Tuning - multiple reviews
« on: June 25, 2013, 08:50:45 PM »
This is to be an objective review with no personal attacks, and limited drama. Since a few weeks before I posted this review, Pooh has stopped tuning locally, and switched to e-tuning. The point of this thread is to make those that aren't around the Cincinnati area aware of the customer service and potential harm that their car(s) could suffer. I feel that spreading the word is necessary to the Subaru community.

The easiest way is to simply paste the link to our local forum, which has reviews/experiences from several members:

http://cincyscoobs.com/showthread.php/3262-Pooh-Performance-Tuning?p=53823#post53823


I realize that this is my first post on this forum, but it is simply to inform the Nebraska Subaru community. I have owned a Subaru since 2009 and am active (with the same screen name) on NASIOC, IWSTI, and WRXFORUMS.com under the same screen name (Badmeat). So I assure you I am not here to troll.

If anyone has any specific questions, feel free to PM me.

Also linking all my review threads:

http://www.wrxforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=473663#post473663

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2521613

http://www.cincinnatisubarus.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=302&p=2896#p2896

Some discussion about PPT is in this one:
http://www.iwsti.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3850491#post3850491
« Last Edit: November 22, 2013, 11:20:44 AM by Badmeat »

Offline jton

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Re: Pooh Performance Tuning - multiple reviews
« Reply #1 on: June 25, 2013, 09:01:11 PM »
Thanks for sharing.
-Jimmy
R35 GTR

Offline C.J.

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Re: Pooh Performance Tuning - multiple reviews
« Reply #2 on: June 25, 2013, 10:24:47 PM »
Lots of "tuners" out there.

Thanks for the heads up.

Offline Kenny McKee

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Re: Pooh Performance Tuning - multiple reviews
« Reply #3 on: June 25, 2013, 11:59:37 PM »
For those who didn't read the thread:
Pooh Tuning has miserable customer support. Chadwick is a good mechanic, but Scott can't tune to save his life. The "Stage 2" tune he gave to a customer was simply the stock tune with the boost turned up. (I'm assuming no fuel compensation whatsoever. *for the uninitiated, a very dangerous tune). I can say with certainty, I will not be receiving a tune from PPT.

Offline mistahcat

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Re: Pooh Performance Tuning - multiple reviews
« Reply #4 on: June 26, 2013, 03:56:13 AM »
Thanks for sharing Badmeat. Sorry your experience was so rough :( Also, kudos on the nice build! What kind of 1/4 mile times are you hitting with it?
2011 STi in LR, Dom 3.0

Offline poohbear

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Re: Pooh Performance Tuning - multiple reviews
« Reply #5 on: June 26, 2013, 03:57:52 AM »
Badmeat refused to come to get his car fixed. Several occasions he was offered FREE service and FREE leak down and compression checks. By not only me but and ASE tech I work with. He refused.

He is bitter and a little butt hurt that his car is still a little hurt...

You can see several otehrs that never had an issue with me ever. There seems to be small group of individuals locally that have it out for me. They are swinging from another shop in the area. This same group of people always like to run there mouths. I have tuned a great deal of cars. I have one negative experiance with a person who refused to let work get done to the car. So here we are.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2013, 04:01:15 AM by poohbear »

Offline Badmeat

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Re: Pooh Performance Tuning - multiple reviews
« Reply #6 on: June 26, 2013, 04:36:23 AM »
It's rather sad that you can't admit fault for your own incompetence :sadbanana

Pooh offered the compression and leak down test only after the third time trying to tune out the "hiccup" that my car had. He told me himself that he didn't know what the issue with my car was. Of course we are now back to the "he refused to let me fix his car for free". That's all covered in my review thread.....he offered one time, and I felt that a compression/leak down test on an engine was unnecessary, and at the point that he picked tuning a new customer over straightening out my car, I chose to go with a different tuner.

My new tuner (who has tuned other big turbo, big injector EJ's) got mine running with no hiccups, like it should have been the whole time. He saw the flaws in Pooh's map (even showed me the 3D graph of his fueling map. Wow) and in under 4 hours of tuning, got my car running great. ZERO hard parts were changed prior to the tune being changed. It's now right on par with where it should be with the given mods that it has. I've played around with many cars while out and about (some of the same cars I ran on the "Pooh Tune") and my new tune has proven itself time and time again that my car pulls a ton harder now, without issue.

The proof is in the results. My car isn't hurt, and runs like it is expected to.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2013, 10:19:34 AM by Badmeat »

Offline Badmeat

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Re: Pooh Performance Tuning - multiple reviews
« Reply #7 on: June 26, 2013, 04:50:18 AM »
Thanks for sharing Badmeat. Sorry your experience was so rough :( Also, kudos on the nice build! What kind of 1/4 mile times are you hitting with it?
I've yet to make it to the track on the new tune. On the old "Pooh Tune" I only was able to net a 12.8x @ 107 (high trap of the day was a 108). That's typical as to what a stage 2 car would trap.....and my car has a Dom 1.5XTR. Needless to say I was quite unhappy with the power my car was making, and it did hiccup a couple times at the track. Now I would guess I would trap in the 112-113 range (based on how my car has done roll racing other proven cars...ricer math).  I am still on stock headers and up-pipe and from what I've read, it seems that with an EL header upgrade, I could pickup another 20-30 whp and more torque as well. That should put me in the 115-range, which is right on par with other Dom 1.5XTR builds. 11.9's are possible with that trap speed and a good run.

I've got a 6 month old daughter, so when time allows, I'll make it to the track  :subaru:
« Last Edit: June 26, 2013, 04:57:53 AM by Badmeat »

Offline poohbear

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Re: Pooh Performance Tuning - multiple reviews
« Reply #8 on: June 26, 2013, 07:47:02 AM »
It's rather sad that you can't admit fault for your incompetence  :sadbanana

Pooh offered the compression and leak down test only after the third time trying to tune out the "hiccup" that my car had. He told me himself that he didn't know what the issue with my car was. Of course we are now back to the "he refused to let me fix his car for free". That's all covered in my review thread.....he offered one time, and I felt that a compression/leak down test on an engine was unnecessary, and at the point that he picked tuning a new customer over straightening out my car, I chose to go with a different tuner.

My new tuner (who has tuned other big turbo, big injector EJ's) got mine running with no hiccups, like it should have been the whole time. He saw the flaws in Pooh's map (even showed me the 3D graph of his fueling map. Wow) and in under 4 hours of tuning, got my car running great. ZERO hard parts were changed prior to the tune being changed. It's now right on par with where it should be with the given mods that it has. I've played around with many cars while out and about (some of the same cars I ran on the "Pooh Tune") and my new tune has proven itself time and time again that my car pulls a ton harder now, without issue.

The proof is in the results. My car isn't hurt, and runs like it is expected to.

You cannot fix what you dont have... My self as well as others offered to help. You always came back with "i dont care I'm not worried about it anymore; I'm just going to let it blow up" yadda yadda yadda...

To leave a review is one thing. But to chase me around is another. Then again used carsalesmen are usually good at spinning BS. I understand youshouldnt have to come back to get a re-tune. But you didnt even accept the offer to fix it. Instead you wine and moan like a little girl, and sitll are. I guess the drama over on CS has died down so you had to come to another forum to get your queen fix.

Even at the track when I offered to help you refused. In fact when the car showed knock you said you didnt care and just wanted to push and push and push. Instead of actually tuning it correctly. People witnessed this too.

You're only telling part of the story here. You were tuned, then offered to get fixed and refused. End of story. You blamed it on schedule for a while. Saying you could only come get tuned after 8PM or some junk. So I offered the weekends and you still said no. Then talk **** about an unfinished tune.




Offline Badmeat

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Re: Pooh Performance Tuning - multiple reviews
« Reply #9 on: June 26, 2013, 08:16:28 AM »
You can say that I'm spinning BS and telling only one side of the story, but that's why I included screen shots of messages...they clearly show the dialogue from both sides.

My schedule, which I always disclosed to you was Tuesday, Saturday, or Sundays after 6pm. I took off a full Sunday from work so that you could try to fix my car. You scheduled two other tunes at the same time as me, so there were very few revision made to my car over the course of several hours. I also notified you two weeks in advance (this was two days after I was frustrated when my car ran a 12.8 @ 107 on your tune and said "I'll let it blow up") of a wednesday that i didn't have my daughter ALL DAY, and your response was "I'm not in the mood to touch Subarus." What did you do that Wednesday? Tuned someone else's Subaru, instead of attempting to sort mine out. As far as addressing your other statements, it's all in my review thread.

The tune was not "unfinished". The last two tuning sessions (three if you count the drag race meet) were to iron out the hiccup, which you were not able to do. I changed hard part after hard part, per your advice, to no avail. The hiccup remained, because it was the tune that was causing it.

Again, the point of this thread is not to start drama, but to inform the Subaru community of your work and customer service...or lack there of.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2013, 09:58:09 AM by Badmeat »

Offline Kenny McKee

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Re: Pooh Performance Tuning - multiple reviews
« Reply #10 on: June 26, 2013, 11:00:29 AM »
I'm waiting for someone to make a pooh pooh tune joke.

Offline jaz

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Re: Pooh Performance Tuning - multiple reviews
« Reply #11 on: June 26, 2013, 11:17:15 AM »
I am going to go ahead and call out the obvious...  Love me or hate me, you're welcome.

Badmeat refused to come to get his car fixed. Several occasions he was offered FREE service and FREE leak down and compression checks. By not only me but and ASE tech I work with. He refused.

He is bitter and a little butt hurt that his car is still a little hurt...

Why is it that just about everyone you deal with is "butt hurt"? 

Tank had the same issues previously.  He'd have people spending money replacing part after part until he gave up.  He also had issues with tuning bigger setups.  Different injectors, WAY out of his league (I will give you that PE side feeds are trash).  Anything over stage 1/2 was out of the question. 

You can see several otehrs that never had an issue with me ever. There seems to be small group of individuals locally that have it out for me. They are swinging from another shop in the area. This same group of people always like to run there mouths. I have tuned a great deal of cars. I have one negative experiance with a person who refused to let work get done to the car. So here we are.

There was more than one negative experience in that thread alone.  In addition, one individual was praised to you on the boards, but told to steer clear at the meets (which is very similar to our previous situation here).  CJ's first assessment may have not been very far off.


You cannot fix what you dont have... My self as well as others offered to help. You always came back with "i dont care I'm not worried about it anymore; I'm just going to let it blow up" yadda yadda yadda...

To leave a review is one thing. But to chase me around is another. Then again used carsalesmen are usually good at spinning BS. I understand youshouldnt have to come back to get a re-tune. But you didnt even accept the offer to fix it. Instead you wine and moan like a little girl, and sitll are. I guess the drama over on CS has died down so you had to come to another forum to get your queen fix.

There it is again, another childish response...  You are a grown man, act like it.


Even at the track when I offered to help you refused. In fact when the car showed knock you said you didnt care and just wanted to push and push and push. Instead of actually tuning it correctly. People witnessed this too.

You're only telling part of the story here. You were tuned, then offered to get fixed and refused. End of story. You blamed it on schedule for a while. Saying you could only come get tuned after 8PM or some junk. So I offered the weekends and you still said no. Then talk **** about an unfinished tune.

Despite whether or not we know both sides of the story, the attitude shown on this forum, the OP's text messages, our PM's from a year ago, and described by Ceir @ EndrTuningLLC (you can read it on IWSTI) has all been the same; very poor.  I fear this local community is going down the same path, but potentially worse.  We have people holding on to RG blindly following them no matter what and it worked very poorly in the end (or very good:  Tank blows motors, RG rebuilds them - profit).  If anyone is curious, drop TiC a line about Pooh Tuning.  As stated in the previous thread by poohbear, they are local to him (the e-mail will be worth it).

I will admit, I've done my research.  What I do recommend to people is to stop blindly taking RG's word on everything.  The information is out there...  It's just amazing for Badmeat to have found this board and post his experiences.  And to clarify, MANY of Tank's old customers are keeping an eye on TX boards to do the same.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2013, 11:50:23 AM by jaz »

Offline 99STM

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Re: Pooh Performance Tuning - multiple reviews
« Reply #12 on: June 26, 2013, 11:25:41 AM »
If I found out how shitty of a tuner you are I wouldn't let you touch my car either. Why does it surprise you that he didn't want anything done?
-Shawn

Offline mistahcat

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Re: Pooh Performance Tuning - multiple reviews
« Reply #13 on: June 26, 2013, 12:25:17 PM »
ANCHORMAN Brick Killed A Guy

Let's stick to facts (or the closest we have to them):
1. badmeat had a difficult time with pooh tuning for whatever reason and got a tune somewhere else that he has liked a lot more. beyond that it's all he said she said. we don't have phone conversations or a stenographer recording their every interaction.
2. http://cincyscoobs.com/showthread.php/191-Pooh-Tune-FTW!-(merged-all-threads) other people have liked pooh tunes, though it's worth pointing out that a lot of these reviews are stage one and two.

This seems to get pretty heated and personal, which is understandable because our community is a great group of people that looks out for the safety of its members cars. I got what feels like a great tune from Pooh, though I also got a good stage 1 tune from tank that never seemed to have problems while others had huge problems. I'm also a fairly typical consumer given my limited knowledge of the full depth of tuning, though I have a firm grasp on much of the theory.

I'd hate to see what happened to Badmeat happen to an NSOC member, or anyone for that matter, but I would also hate to see people deprived of a valuable new resource. So the ultimate question we should be posting about is objective quality rather than distracting ourselves with things we can't prove either way. Badmeat, do you have some Pooh tune v Bruce tune logs you can show us? That would be incredibly helpful!

Jaz, if you want to take a look at my tune, I think we'd all appreciate an opinion from someone many of us already know and trust. Those who know Jaz personally can attest to his ability to stay neutral and to the facts when it comes to the nuts and bolts of cars. The good and bad can be made public and discrepancies in opinion can then be discussed directly, openly, and based on evidence. Only then can community members make the educated decision on their tuning needs. I wouldn't prescribe meds without a peer-reviewed evidence based quality study and I don't advise anyone to lean either way on Pooh tuning without something similar (the closest we can get anyway!).
2011 STi in LR, Dom 3.0

Offline Badmeat

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Re: Pooh Performance Tuning - multiple reviews
« Reply #14 on: June 26, 2013, 12:31:41 PM »
I don't have any Bruce logs readily available to post, and I'd rather not, as they differ so much from Pooh's. I will, however, gladly get a GoPro in-car clip of my car going 2nd to 5th gear to show that there's no hiccup.

Here's a log of the hiccup on the Pooh tune:


Offline mistahcat

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Re: Pooh Performance Tuning - multiple reviews
« Reply #15 on: June 26, 2013, 12:37:16 PM »
I don't have any Bruce logs readily available to post, and I'd rather not, as they differ so much from Pooh's. I will, however, gladly get a GoPro in-car clip of my car going 2nd to 5th gear to show that there's no hiccup.

Here's a log of the hiccup on the Pooh tune:



Thanks! And I don't think any of us will turn down a gopro of you going 2-5, regardless of the reason.  ^_^
2011 STi in LR, Dom 3.0

Offline poohbear

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Re: Pooh Performance Tuning - multiple reviews
« Reply #16 on: June 26, 2013, 04:04:41 PM »
ANCHORMAN Brick Killed A Guy

Let's stick to facts (or the closest we have to them):
1. badmeat had a difficult time with pooh tuning for whatever reason and got a tune somewhere else that he has liked a lot more. beyond that it's all he said she said. we don't have phone conversations or a stenographer recording their every interaction.
2. http://cincyscoobs.com/showthread.php/191-Pooh-Tune-FTW!-(merged-all-threads) other people have liked pooh tunes, though it's worth pointing out that a lot of these reviews are stage one and two.

This seems to get pretty heated and personal, which is understandable because our community is a great group of people that looks out for the safety of its members cars. I got what feels like a great tune from Pooh, though I also got a good stage 1 tune from tank that never seemed to have problems while others had huge problems. I'm also a fairly typical consumer given my limited knowledge of the full depth of tuning, though I have a firm grasp on much of the theory.

I'd hate to see what happened to Badmeat happen to an NSOC member, or anyone for that matter, but I would also hate to see people deprived of a valuable new resource. So the ultimate question we should be posting about is objective quality rather than distracting ourselves with things we can't prove either way. Badmeat, do you have some Pooh tune v Bruce tune logs you can show us? That would be incredibly helpful!

Jaz, if you want to take a look at my tune, I think we'd all appreciate an opinion from someone many of us already know and trust. Those who know Jaz personally can attest to his ability to stay neutral and to the facts when it comes to the nuts and bolts of cars. The good and bad can be made public and discrepancies in opinion can then be discussed directly, openly, and based on evidence. Only then can community members make the educated decision on their tuning needs. I wouldn't prescribe meds without a peer-reviewed evidence based quality study and I don't advise anyone to lean either way on Pooh tuning without something similar (the closest we can get anyway!).

I will email it to him if thats what it takes. And logs... Simple... or pull it directly off of the car. GO for it. either way

Offline jaz

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Re: Pooh Performance Tuning - multiple reviews
« Reply #17 on: June 26, 2013, 09:56:55 PM »
Jaz, if you want to take a look at my tune, I think we'd all appreciate an opinion from someone many of us already know and trust. Those who know Jaz personally can attest to his ability to stay neutral and to the facts when it comes to the nuts and bolts of cars. The good and bad can be made public and discrepancies in opinion can then be discussed directly, openly, and based on evidence. Only then can community members make the educated decision on their tuning needs. I wouldn't prescribe meds without a peer-reviewed evidence based quality study and I don't advise anyone to lean either way on Pooh tuning without something similar (the closest we can get anyway!).

This is to hit two birds with one stone in response to this and the PM received from poohbear. 

I have no problem looking at the map, however, I do not want anything sent to me.  If I do it, I will pull the map and run my own logs.  I do not do E-tuning (or I only E-tune good friends because they know how anal I am) because it relies on "usable logs" and if I do not know exactly how those logs were attained, I cannot say for sure it is good or not.  To be very clear, this is not for my benefit or poobear's.  It would simply be to ensure that the car is safe for Mike given what I have seen and I will match the free of charge presented by poohbear.  I will follow that; I am only observing.  I do not care specifically about the map as I build my own from a stock ECU or use my own base maps if things align. 

I will also follow with this because it has been openly offered to me.  If I find something, I will air it.  Whether it be something I find just going through the map (and letting ECU Flash compare for me) or a log I take.  I generally let the cars do their own talking which is why I have never had to openly offer any services; the cars have always spoken very well for themselves.  On the same token, there came a breaking point with Tank when too many motors and turbos were blown that words had to share expression.  I understand that the majority of the crowd does not know what the heck they are looking for and why.  Many do not know what they should idle and cruise at, what WOT should be, how it should get there, or what is going on during PT boost.  I have had some get worried when they saw lean under engine decal and explained to them that the injectors are shut off during that time.  At the same time, a previous Tank customer was told it was normal for his car to idle in the 11's and WOT in the 9's and this was on a customers car that he visited my house with TWICE and I explained why he was having the issues he was (tags onto the injector scaling he could not do).  The next year, the customer came to me directly, got a tune one day and has been happy since (which was over a year ago), aside from grenading the transmission :).  I said all that to say this, I'm not going to let the same experience happen again as long as I am here.  Although I have lived here 5 years now, I am not from around here and the car scene here is wildly different than Austin, Phoenix and Denver (I am VET, I get around).  What happens here would not last at any of those locations I have lived in the past 20 years.  The attitude that has been displayed tells me a lot about you and how you handle issues more so than you may realize.  It was enough for me to do some asking around through my circle, to include big name shops, to find out more about you.  I will level with you...  For the people who have actually heard of you, it is not good. 

I will close with this...  A stage 1/2 map is very simple as most of the work has been done for you via the factory binary, so I am not overly curious as to what has been done.  Before I even started with Subaru's, I flashed a downloaded stage 2 map on a friends car so they could get rid of their AccessPort and it worked just fine.  That was later followed up with a bigger build and a custom tune.  I will never just "flash" a map again.  If that is all someone wants, it would be in their best interest to find their own cable and download a map and flash it themselves.  I do NOT recommend this  :police:.  For the last 10 years or so I have been doing this and constantly challenging myself to be better, I am for the most part, open about information.  If it gets the community smarter, I have succeeded.  More importantly, if it gets them to attain knowledge themselves, I have won.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2013, 10:02:55 PM by jaz »

Offline 99STM

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Re: Pooh Performance Tuning - multiple reviews
« Reply #18 on: June 26, 2013, 10:24:47 PM »
Cliff notes:

pooh = dipshit

jaz = not a dipshit.
-Shawn

Offline mistahcat

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Re: Pooh Performance Tuning - multiple reviews
« Reply #19 on: June 26, 2013, 10:46:32 PM »
Thanks for agreeing to look it over, Jaz. The car is available whenever you are. Just let me know when would work best as I have at least another week completely free.
2011 STi in LR, Dom 3.0

Offline jton

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Re: Pooh Performance Tuning - multiple reviews
« Reply #20 on: June 26, 2013, 10:53:50 PM »
.....
For the last 10 years or so I have been doing this and constantly challenging myself to be better, I am for the most part, open about information.  If it gets the community smarter, I have succeeded.  More importantly, if it gets them to attain knowledge themselves, I have won.

-Jimmy
R35 GTR

Offline Kenny McKee

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Offline mistahcat

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Re: Pooh Performance Tuning - multiple reviews
« Reply #22 on: June 27, 2013, 07:38:26 AM »
http://cincinnati.craigslist.org/pts/3843989083.html

/thread

 :popcorn

Kenny, why are you skulking about craigslist in multiple cities? :| I have a feeling that's not the only section you were there for  ;)  :sadbanana
2011 STi in LR, Dom 3.0

Offline Doomed

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Re: Pooh Performance Tuning - multiple reviews
« Reply #23 on: June 27, 2013, 07:55:19 AM »
If there is anymore (what I consider) personal attacks this one will be locked too.  Next is ban.  I am all for information flowing, just no bad mouthing.
I like TALL Subarus.

Offline Kenny McKee

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Re: Pooh Performance Tuning - multiple reviews
« Reply #24 on: June 27, 2013, 11:41:42 AM »
http://cincinnati.craigslist.org/pts/3843989083.html

/thread

 :popcorn

Kenny, why are you skulking about craigslist in multiple cities? :| I have a feeling that's not the only section you were there for  ;)  :sadbanana


I was looking for a big strong man in m2m and ran across that ad in my travels.